Created attachment 192611 [details] Screenshot showing the UI - Open Calc - Make sure you have the user interface set to tabbed - Right click on a cell - Format Cell... > Cell Protection It mention "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the 'Tools' menu." In tabbed interface this doesn't exist. The button is not even in the "Tools" tab. It's in "Review" Action: change the screen to either be contextual depending on the type of UI or to just be more generic. Version info: Version: 24.2.0.3 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community Build ID: da48488a73ddd66ea24cf16bbc4f7b9c08e9bea1 CPU threads: 24; OS: Linux 6.7; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3 Locale: en-CA (en_CA.UTF-8); UI: en-US Flatpak Calc: threaded
You are confusing a _menu_; that is: File/Edit/View/Insert/Format/Styles/Sheet/Data/ *Tools* /Window/Help (but slightly different on macOS) with the Tabbed UI; that is: File/Home/Insert/Layout/Data/Review/View/Extension/Tools. Please review in your Calc UI, that you use the first icon on the left side (to the left of the "File" tab) named "Menubar" in order to show the menus. You should see the Tools menu, in which you have the "Protect Sheet" item and also the "Protect Spreadsheet Structure". Closing.
No I am not confusing anything. If you read the reproduction steps, item 2 is "- Make sure you have the user interface set to tabbed" In tabbed interface there is no "Tools" menu. The UNO action Protect is triggered from the button "Protect Sheet" in the "Review" tab. What is wrong is the wording in the UI for the cell protection, wording that has NOT been updated to take into account the tabbed UI. What you suggest is to switch the UI mode. Kind of like "holding it wrong". Hence my suggestion to > Action: change the *string* to either be contextual depending on the type of UI or to just be more generic. (correct the words as I can't edit comments) So if the user is in tabbed view, it should say: "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the 'Reviews' tabbed toolbar." Or something more generic.
I repeat: the text refers to the menu, not the toolbars (of whichever UI). It specifically says the "Tools menu", emphasize on "menu". Accordingly, the report is invalid. You re-opened the report, so I'll leave that for someone else (or yourself).
FWIW, and just in case someone is not reading carefully... (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #2) > In tabbed interface there is no "Tools" menu. The UNO action Protect is > triggered from the button "Protect Sheet" in the "Review" tab. I explained in comment 1 how to show the menu while using the Tabbed UI. The help text is valid for whichever UI that is being used. Additionally, the same "Protect Sheet" option is also available on the context menu of the worksheet tab (on the lower area of the main screen of Calc). All this is just FYI, and just in case it was missed in my comment 1. The main issue is still the same: the text is correct.
When user sees "Tools menu" in Tabbed, he will not look after how to turn that manu, rather will just notice that Tools is missing. Seen multiple times. So it would be desirable to have text clear for user. Either change contextually or add "Review tab" or remove "Tools menu". I add UXeval, needs a mail also.
(In reply to Timur from comment #5) > When user sees "Tools menu" in Tabbed, he will not look after how to turn > that manu, rather will just notice that Tools is missing. Seen multiple > times. > So it would be desirable to have text clear for user. > Either change contextually or add "Review tab" or remove "Tools menu". > I add UXeval, needs a mail also. I completely disagree. The menu items are more consistent than any of the diverse UI methods. At some version some UI variant gets changed, or added, or deprecated. Such modifications happen much less frequently on menu items and are more common in other spreadsheet tools too. The help text points to the item that is consistent in whichever UI. The fact that some users don't display the menu bar by default is not a reason to change the help text. If such were to be the normal procedure, developers would have to make every help text dependent on each and every possibility or combination of UI elements. As I mentioned, most users would just use the context menu on the worksheet tab (where the name of the worksheet is shown. And even then, you could have hidden worksheet, either protected or unprotected. It would make the help text dependent and varying on a lot of UI variations, and every time the layout and/or features of an UI variant would change, developers would have to review every single help text or tool tip in order to adapt it to some minor change. There is no workaround to learning what a _menu_ is vs what a toolbar is, especially when the software is not as simple as a basic/simple text editor. If users play with UI variants, they have to eventually learn these things too. Knowing where the menu is located and/or how to arrive to that element is much simpler than understanding how Protection works for spreadsheets.
There is no need to repeat the same in many comments. I add UX mail.
Static text to explain the UI/interaction is bad per se. We could just remove "Select 'Protect Sheet' from..." to make the tip compliant with all UI variants.
I'll take that as confirmation. Still not clear what is a solution, there should be something, at least to say that Cell Protection applies when Ptotect Sheet is enabled.
(In reply to Heiko Tietze from comment #8) > Static text to explain the UI/interaction is bad per se. We could just > remove "Select 'Protect Sheet' from..." to make the tip compliant with all > UI variants. Absolutely disagree. Think about the reason to add such help text in the first place. Newbies get at least a hint of what needs to be done, instead of (incorrectly) thinking that cell protection is enough. The text is consistent with _all_ UI variants The menu is not always shown for every user, whichever UI is being used, even in standard – exactly the same as having to open some dialogue that is not already automatically opened, or having to go to some official help document to find further info. This report is about a user mistaking a menu with a toolbar, in whichever UI variant. Such confusion can happen to anyone, newbie or experienced user, any day of the week. If at least the UI was consistently editable (which is _not_), then the discussion would be worth something. I am absolutely completely against changing nor deleting this help text. Experience has to count for something. You learn with this text, the first time you read it, or as a reminder. Then, in future cases, you know what to do. Let's do no harm.
@Timur, We have different opinions. Please respect that, instead of tagging my comments. I am confident that experience with spreadsheets tools is very relevant here, and not all of us have the same experiences in that regard. The summary of this report says: " UI: Cell protection dialog reference menu that don't exist " The _menu_ exists. It might not be shown for some users, but the menu exits. What does not exist is an item in the Tools _toolbar_ in the Tabbed UI that is named as "Protect Sheet". So, based on that summary and the fact that the menu exists (but not shown for some users that decide not to show it), this is not a bug report. Deleting the text is, IMNSHO, not an enhancement, at all. Expressing that opinion does not make it "no value".
Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776
(In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 " This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI " That's not true, for the nth time.
(In reply to ady from comment #13) > (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 > > " > This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI > " > > That's not true, for the nth time. Agree. This is not a legitimate approach to documentation of the MUFFIN UI assemblages. The hint in the current help "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the 'Tools' menu." is a valid description. One just has to expose the main menu. We reached a point some time ago that the MUFFIN NB flavors would never fully implement the scope of TB, Menu and Dialog. The 'Menubar' (.uno:Menubar) is placed on the MUFFIN NB or Hamburger, and we have bug 107343 lingering for a global keyboard shortcut to toggle main menu visible conveniently regardless of the MUFFIN NB mode in use.
(In reply to V Stuart Foote from comment #14) > (In reply to ady from comment #13) > > (In reply to Hubert Figuiere from comment #12) > > > Submitted https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/163776 > > > > " > > This menu doesn't exist when using the tabbed UI > > " > > > > That's not true, for the nth time. > > Agree. This is not a legitimate approach to documentation of the MUFFIN UI > assemblages. The hint in the current help "Select 'Protect Sheet' from the > 'Tools' menu." is a valid description. One just has to expose the main menu. > > We reached a point some time ago that the MUFFIN NB flavors would never > fully implement the scope of TB, Menu and Dialog. > > The 'Menubar' (.uno:Menubar) is placed on the MUFFIN NB or Hamburger, and we > have bug 107343 lingering for a global keyboard shortcut to toggle main menu > visible conveniently regardless of the MUFFIN NB mode in use. UNO for hiding/showing the the main menu was https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/28044
Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to enable/disable it for various UI variants.
(In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #16) > Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why > not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If > the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know > more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to > enable/disable it for various UI variants. The hint text is adequate as-is; any user that wants to use the (online or installed) help content can do it without changing the hint text, and with no need for any hint text at all. If the fact that, by user's choice, the menu bar is hidden and all the help tips/hints would need to be modified for that, then _every_single_hint_text would be useless, because _all_ the menu items are not shown according to user's choice – not just one specific menu item that is being the target in this ticket. To be clear, I do not agree with such deletion or changes in such direction. Since the menu bar could be hidden with any UI variant (not just with the Tabbed UI), then all hints would need to be deleted, under such reasoning. Moreover, most UI variants have shortcomings, and the Tabbed UI in particular lacks a lot of functions and its customization is very limited. Therefore, the menu bar is frequently required. If there is one more-or-less stable part of the UI in Calc is the items in the menu bar, also in relation to other/similar spreadsheet tools. If you are going to just write "use the help content", then what exactly would be the real utility of the hint text? No, absolutely disagree. Leave the help hints as-is, and let users read the (online) help content whenever they want to search for more info; help buttons and F1 are frequently available for that.
(In reply to Tomaz Vajngerl from comment #16) > Instead of pointing to where the functionality can be enabled/disabled, why > not point to the help pages for "Protect sheet" functionality instead. If > the user is not familiar with that functionality, they will want to know > more details anyway and in the help it is described how and where to > enable/disable it for various UI variants. +1, I think it would be reasonable to link to the appropriate help pages, but as @ady notes that is a lot of locations in the MUFFIN NB UI assemblages to be tweaked. Simply deleting the current "hints" is not the way to go. And certainly not one at a time. And IIRC Collabora alone has moved by default to the NB Tabbed UI. So will someone there orchestrate the changes at least for the NB Tabbed UI, and maybe easy hack the rest of the NB modes? And, there is the bug 107343 view toggle for the main menu that would otherwise address those instances referring to a menu item.
We discussed the topic in the design meeting. (In reply to ady from comment #17) > If you are going to just write "use the help content", then what exactly > would be the real utility of the hint text? Tomaz had probably a hyperlink in mind. It was discussed to alternatively change the label depending on the UI mode, or amend the existing text with the Notebookbar solution. This idea has some flaws. But the conclusion was to use a more generic description. That could be to omit the passage about the menu (was rejected), or something like "..."Use the command 'Protect Sheet' for this.".